Hello and welcome to this Rapid Fire author interview, where I’m delighted to be joined once again by the excellent Denny Flowers, to talk about his latest Black Library novel – Above and Beyond. Denny’s previous novel, Outgunned, was one of my favourite BL books of the last few years – you can read my review of it and my interview with Denny about it if you’d like to know more – so I was thrilled when the sequel, Above and Beyond, was announced. I love this sort of 40k story, which steps away from the big names and the big battlefields to explore lesser-seen perspectives on the setting, so it was great to chat to Denny again about what we can expect from the new book, what it was like revisiting these characters, and how Denny found working on a sequel to such a well-received novel.
I should note, there are some spoilers for Outgunned in this interview, so do bear that in mind if you haven’t yet read the first book. I’ll mark them clearly when they turn up in the interview, so you can avoid them if need be.
Before we get into the interview though, here’s the publisher’s synopsis for Above and Beyond:
Flight Commander Lucille von Shard: Hero of Bacchus, fighter ace, and a living legend heralded for her valour and piety. Propagandist Kile Simlex, responsible for her fame, shares none of this renown. Condemned to the ignominy of a scribe’s cubicle cell, his chance at liberation comes as a cryptic vid message claiming to be from Shard herself, requesting his aid.
Under the von Shard family’s patronage, Simlex journeys to Deighton, a world in open rebellion from the Imperium, where he finds the commander a shadow of her former self. Near broken by eternal war, her confidence and reputation crumbling, Shard must somehow steel herself for her deadliest battle yet, against a xenos mercenary of unparalleled skill. Can Simlex help her overcome this near-invincible enemy, or merely watch as she is finally defeated?
And with that done, let’s get straight into it.
ToW: To start things off, before we get into Above and Beyond let’s talk a bit about Outgunned. For anyone who might not have read it, or who needs a recap, could you give us a quick overview?
(Outgunned SPOILERS)
Denny Flowers: Outgunned is a story told by Propagandist Kyle Simlex. A skilled but naive pict-forger, Simlex was determined to capture the true majesty of the Imperium’s war efforts using footage recorded from the frontlines. In truth, he also wanted to complete a biopict featuring Flight Commander Lucille von Shard, the renowned fighter ace and hero of the Imperium.
However, on arriving on planet Bacchus, Simlex was dismayed to discover that the propaganda reels he’d long crafted did not remotely capture the reality of warfare. The orks were not knuckle scraping simpletons, but savage warriors capable of advanced tactics and swift technological development. By contrast, the Imperial war machine was hamstrung by a nobility who prioritised preserving their way of life over opposing the ork threat, and piecemeal military forces that were reluctant to coordinate their efforts.
But his greatest disappointment was meeting Flight Commander von Shard. Though supremely skilled she was no hero, merely a cynic who seemed to care only for indulging her vices and exploiting her reputation. But in time Simlex began to suspect this persona was a construct, a means of coping with the horrors of war. Just occasionally it would slip, and he would capture a glimpse of the woman behind it.
Ultimately, Shard and Simlex prevented the orks from ascending to a system-wide threat, and in doing so exposed Bacchus’ Planetary Governor as being compromised by a xenos presence. The story concluded with Simlex attempting to present the reality of the conflict to his superiors, only to be sanctioned and demoted as a result. His work was stolen and refashioned into an epic pict entitled The Glorious Martyrdom of the 2208th, which portrayed Shard as a hero.
ToW: With that done, how would you describe Above and Beyond, and what readers can expect from it?
DF: Above and Beyond is what happens next. Specifically, it is about the aftereffects of the terrible conflict which resulted in the majority of Shard’s regiment being wiped out. Although Simlex and Shard survived and were reassigned, neither emerged unscathed. They are not hypno-conditioned transhuman warriors, nor fanatical servants of the Imperial cult who can rely on their faith to see them through doubt. Both are struggling to readjust to life. There is no equivalent of post traumatic stress disorder in 40k. Indeed, the concept would be dismissed and its symptoms attributed to cowardice or moral failings (a bit like in World War One). But humans remain human, even in the far flung future of the 41st millennium, and undergoing such horrors does not leave them unscathed.
But the conflict in Above and Beyond is quite different. Deighton, unlike Bacchus, is a human world untroubled by orks and nominatively loyal to the Imperium. However, due to isolation caused by the Cicatrix Maledictum (and some regrettable mistakes during its rediscovery), the planet is currently at odds with the wider Imperium, its populace believing the invaders do not serve the God-Emperor. Though Deighton’s forces cannot long oppose the Imperium’s armies, the planet houses vital data records that must be preserved. Unable to use its most destructive weaponry, the conflict is instead underpinned by a relentless propaganda campaign intended to encourage the dissidents to rise up against their masters. And there is no more inspiring figurehead than Flight Commander Lucille von Shard.
Whereas Bacchus was a desperate war to stave off an unbeatable horde, the battle for Deighton is about winning over hearts and minds. And souls of course, for only the God-Emperor can guard humanities’ souls. And Shard would surely be the first to say that those who speak ill of Him deserve nothing but death and damnation.
ToW: How much of a time gap is there between the two books, and what’s changed for the characters over that time?
DF: It’s been a few Terran years since the war on Bacchus, though the characters have experienced the passage of time quite differently.
Simlex has been confined to his cubicle-cell, with only a badly damaged seer-skull for company. Confinement has taken a toll. He is in chronic pain from injuries suffered during the war on Bacchus, and struggles to sleep, haunted by memories of the conflict. His duties comprise of cataloguing data scraps, and though he has not seen Shard since Bacchus her likeness is ever present in the vids he processes. In a sense he is haunted by her, and by her success, which ironically stems from the same bastardised pict that led to his demotion and censorship.
For the unparalleled success of The Glorious Martyrdom of the 2208th has resulted in Shard becoming a living legend, a figure of awe beloved by the citizens of the Imperium. Indeed, so great is her value as a propaganda figure that she spends less and less time on the frontlines. In many ways her life is the best it’s been, with ever greater acclaim and minimal risks. In fact, her new propagandist prefers that she remains grounded for the most part, rather than risk her life on dangerous missions. That’s the only reason of course, for her skills are as sharp as ever, and her resolve just as strong.
There’s nothing wrong with her. The picts prove that. Anyone who says otherwise will be sanctioned for spreading falsehoods.
ToW: After Outgunned you also wrote a few Lucille von Shard short stories. Could you talk a bit about these, and how they fit into the overall narrative?
DF: The shorts provide an opportunity for a different perspective on Shard. Simlex views her a certain way, but other characters might see a different side of her, depending on their relationship.
The Trial of Lucille von Shard is set before Outgunned and is narrated by a fellow fighter ace. It provides an introduction to the character and contrasts her flippant nature with the fact that she does follow orders, even if she dislikes it and sometimes pretends otherwise. This story is a standalone that does not directly tie into the novels, but the other two act as prologues to Above and Beyond.
Starstruck is narrated by Shard’s dutiful brother, Rile von Shard. An agent of Inquisitor Atenbach (who some readers might remember from the short story Tainted Faith [featured in Inferno! Presents: The Inquisition – ToW]), Rile requisitions his sister’s aid in order to remove a sensitive item from a facility about to be overrun by Tyranids. Shard seems supremely confident in her abilities and somewhat dismissive of her brother, but she has never before faced Tyranids. Orks might be terrifying, but they are also soldiers and their manner of waging war is at least somewhat similar to the Imperium. But the Tyranids are an existential threat to the entire galaxy, not so much an army as an unstoppable swarm, and despite Shard’s flippancy she is shaken by the conflict, and Rile is left concerned about his sister’s mental state.
Own Worst Enemy is narrated by Flight Sergeant Vagbon, a no-nonsense pilot who becomes concerned by Shard’s apparent disconnect with the conflict. Propagandist Esec, a new pict maker responsible for the propaganda campaign, is excited to announce that he has found a suitably cinematic foe for Shard to face, an enigmatic new pilot dubbed The Desert Wind. But when Shard faces this foe it transpires they are inexperienced and terrified, attributing their supposed victories to a mysterious force haunting the plains. He warns Shard that this force is hunting her, right before dying in a strange flash of light. The story concludes with a concerned Esec approaching Vagbon and informing her that she will now be flying under Shard’s markings.
Neither Starstruck or Own Worst Enemy are necessary reading to understand Above and Beyond, but both do tie into the story and current status quo.
ToW: Having written Outgunned and those short stories, what drew you back to these characters for a sequel? Was there anything you’d left hanging, or any themes or ideas that you were particularly keen to pick back up and explore more?
DF: Outgunned was written with the intention (and hope!) there would be a sequel. That said, I’m a big believer that novels should stand on their own, and Outgunned works as a cautionary tale about believing unquestioningly and the dangers of meeting your heroes.
But there are a couple of threads left hanging from Outgunned.
(Outgunned SPOILERS)
The main one is the subplot featuring the Aeldari exerting their influence on Bacchus (or, more specifically, its Planetary Governor). It transpired that the rot infesting the planet originated from a simple fruit-bearing plant in Governor Dolos’ quarters, a gift provided by Aeldari ambassadors. Whether its fruit also drove her to madness is unclear, though the paintings lining her private quarters hinted at some rather dark visions, particularly those featuring a gaunt and withered creature in dark robes that resembled an Aeldari but with multiple additional limbs emerging from its hunched spine.
Simlex never had the opportunity to confront Governor Dolos before she was apprehended by Inquisitional Agent Rile von Shard (who, coincidentally, is that narrator of the Starstruck short). Perhaps the Aeldari actions on Bacchus were mere whim, though an agent of the Ordo Xenos would be quick to note that Aeldari are not as capricious as the propaganda suggests, for no matter how inscrutable their actions, there is always a reason.
There are also, for want of a better word, inconsistencies in Simlex’s account (one in particular appears in Outgunned’s postscript). While Simlex presents himself as an honest man he’s neither infallible nor unswayable (he is a propagandist after all!). His account in Outgunned, whilst more accurate than the heavily doctored pict, might not be the whole story of what transpired on that world.
ToW: How do you approach a sequel in terms of narrative? Presumably there’s a balance to be found between giving readers more of the same stuff they enjoyed, and giving them something new so you’re not just treading the same ground?
DF: It’s tricky! Readers (hopefully!) want more of the same, but one of the themes of Above and Beyond is that you can’t go back. The characters have been changed by their experiences; Simlex is no longer naive and Shard has seen some truly horrific things. But despite these changes I thought it was vital that Simlex was brought back as narrator. Whilst it is fun to see Shard through other characters’ eyes, I think the interplay between Simlex and Shard (and their somewhat antagonistic relationship) is one of my favourite aspects of Outgunned. And, if anything, it is worse in the sequel. The Glorious Martyrdom of the 2208th has led to both Simlex’s downfall and Shard’s ascension.
Above and Beyond has a very different setting to Outgunned. Bacchus was a toxic swamp where the indigenous population toiled harvesting vine fruit and brewed wine for their superiors. It was also contaminated by a blight, the planet slowly rotting in the filth. In contrast, Deighton is a world dedicated to the storage and transfer of data. The story primarily takes place in a desert region, where the populous are confined to hive cities that transmit data across the stark expanses between. But it is also a lost world, its records maintained through a system incomprehensible to outsiders. Its population cannot simply be slaughtered or enslaved, because doing so may render such information impossible to extract. That’s why its so vital to convince the population that the Imperium’s armies are liberators, not oppressors, and that Deighton’s taskmasters are the ones who should be overthrown. Humanity is at war with itself, and there is no xenos threat to rally against.
At least, no overt xenos threat…
ToW: Above and Beyond is your third novel for Black Library, but it’s the first time you’ve written a sequel. Did you come across any ‘difficult second album’ issues when working on this?
DF: The biggest fear is raised expectations.
Outgunned was a small story compared to some Black Library releases. There are no tabletop characters in it, and it doesn’t involve one of the more popular factions or feed into the ongoing narrative. That said, it seems to have been fairly well received by those who read it. I was particularly pleased to receive some feedback from a former Marine Corps Combat Photographer; apparently I captured the challenges of the role and the sometimes adversarial relationship between photographer and pilots quite well.
I think the positive reception is partly because it’s an unusual tale, and readers are less inclined to feel like I failed to capture the essence of a character or faction. Plus I was a fairly unknown author (I probably still am!), and readers were more willing to give me the benefit of the doubt. And, having re-read some of it prior to starting Above and Beyond, I’m actually pretty proud of it! (an odd feeling as I’m hypercritical of my work!)
So my greatest fear going into it was that I’d mess up the ongoing story and tarnish Outgunned’s legacy. I was determined Above and Beyond would be better. Of course, it’s not up to me to judge whether I have succeeded. I’m very pleased with it overall, though I worry a couple of choices I made might not be to everyone’s taste; there are some controversial scenes (two in particular I was worried would be blocked by editorial, though luckily the editors were happy with both). Getting a positive review from Sandy Mitchell (the renowned author of the Cain series) was also a great relief. At least one guy likes it!
The other, somewhat more random challenge, was that my family got a twelve week old puppy a couple of weeks before I started the book, so quite a lot of the early draft was written whilst I was suffering from sleep deprivation, cleaning up dog mess, and trying to type as quietly as possible in order not to wake (and thus be attacked) by the fuzzy monster. She is now almost two and has grown into a very well behaved and loving family pet who no longer tries to eat the walls, but those first couple of months were… testing.
ToW: Conversely, was there anything that you particularly enjoyed in the process of writing this book?
DF: Honestly? I really enjoyed it once I got over myself and just started writing. There are various stages I go through during the writing process, usually starting really positive, getting into trouble around the end of the first act, going back and fixing it, etc. You get used to it after a few stories. But Above and Beyond was something I started planning whilst completing the first draft for Outgunned. It’s had a long gestation, and I’m pleased it will finally be released (even if I’m nervous about the reception).
The most enjoyable aspect is exploring the characters. Outgunned provided a setup and introduction, but in Above and Beyond the characters are established, which means you can start messing around with and/or ruining their lives. There’s also a chance to expand on the mythology. One my favourite parts of Outgunned was the cameos from the von Shard siblings. There wasn’t really space to explore them in detail, but this isn’t the case with Above and Beyond, and two of Shard’s siblings in particular get significantly more screen time. Like Shard, there is more to them than first appears, and though her siblings appear almost ashamed of their sister, there are hints that they have a stronger bond that is initially apparent (even if, as Shard suggests in Outgunned, it’s possible they are not blood relatives after all).
ToW: These stories have quite a different tone to a lot of 40k fiction, and personally I think it’s important to have variation like this. When you’re writing something like Above and Beyond, how much are you aware of the way it stands out in the wider range?
DF: Outgunned ended up bleaker than I’d intended and Above and Beyond certainly continues that trend. Tone evolves, and although I plan carefully it’s still something that can surprise me. I think in part it arises from the first-person perspective and Simlex’s limited understanding of the galaxy. His lack of familiarity helps remind the reader of the horrifying nature of the conflict. Even a simple ork is a terrifying monster to a human non-combatant, whereas an Aeldari is little more than a myth.
When I write I’m not really thinking about how it compares to other stories. I’m just trying to do the best job I can! I do think a range of stories is important. Some of the most beloved Black Library fiction features epic wars that shake the galaxy and span centuries. In contrast, these stories are smaller moments, snapshots in an unending conflict where lives are a resource to feed into the machine of war. I suppose it’s the difference between an historic overview of a conflict and the account of an individual caught within it. Shard is less overtly heroic than some protagonists, but she is trapped within a military ideology that is content to slaughter billions of innocents to achieve victory. Can anyone who is a part of such a regime be considered a hero? Does Shard playing the part to survive make her better or worse than the true fanatics? That’s for the reader to judge.
ToW: Now you’ve written two novels and several short stories about these characters, could you see yourself writing yet more Shard/Simlex stories? Are these characters that, reader interest permitting, you’d be happy to keep exploring further?
DF: I would love to keep writing about these characters! Both Shard and Simlex are close to my heart, partly because there are aspects of me in both of them. Simlex sees himself as analytical but is actually something of an idealist, whereas Shard has basically given up on the galaxy as an ugly, irrational, and doomed place, where the only rational response is to get drunk and watch the world burn. Without getting too caught up in real world problems, I tend to flirt between these positions, though sadly as I get older I find myself thinking more often that Shard is right.
However, I cannot guarantee that I will have the chance to tell further tales with all the characters, even if Above and Beyond is well received. Because I can’t guarantee everyone is going to make it out of this one alive.
ToW: Lastly, if you were an Imperial Propagandist and you were given free rein to write or make a pict about anything of your choice, what would you choose and why?
DF: I think most propagandists would love to record a pict of the Great War, where the God-Emperor and his nine Primarchs defeated the Arch-Heretic and the nine great evils he assembled. Picture Sanguinius besting the foul warp-spawn before ascending to the God-Emperor’s light to watch over humanity for all time. Or Dorn heroically repelling the dark forces from the wall. And while no propagandist could accurately portray the God-Emperor in all his glory, it would still be magnificent to splice a scene of him crushing the Arch-Heretic beneath his boot before triumphantly ascending his Golden Throne, to rule unopposed for the ten thousand years since. Praise the God-Emperor!
Then again, if I was an imperial propagandist, and had seen what Simlex had seen, I might choose a different story, one telling the people to wake up and rise up against their true oppressors. Of course, then I’d be shot and left to rot by the roadside.
Perhaps it would be wiser to lie. At least for a time.
***
Denny Flowers is the author of the novels Fire Made Flesh and Outgunned, the novella Low Lives and several short stories. He lives in Kent with his wife and son, and has no proven connection with House Delaque.
You can find Denny on Instagram @denny_flowers
***
Thanks once again to Denny for chatting to me for this interview! I don’t know about you, but I can’t wait to read Above and Beyond – I’ve got my copy ordered already. Check out the link below to get hold of a copy for yourself too!
See also: my review of Outgunned
RAPID FIRE: Denny Flowers Talks Outgunned
Order Above and Beyond on Amazon*
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